and i think, for instance, google, eric schmidt, had an enormous impact there. the north koreans loved the idea of an internet, freedom of exchange. and i think this is the new kind of diplomacy that we need around the world. the internet, information. >> what you said was part two of your three-pronged approach there in what you wanted to effect when you got there. were you able to get past government minders and get a view of how the people are living there or get a sense of how the people reacted to these tests? >> well, we did try to get out -- they do try to control you. we had handlers. we stayed at a guesthouse. but we did go into the subway. we did go into an acrobatic show. we did walk around. we went into stores. we went into universities. we did talk to people. so my sense is that kim jong-un does have support from his people for these tests. that was my very short assessment. i wish i'd had more opportunity. we didn't get into the rural areas. but at the same time, alex, we never talked to him. i think it would be very valuable for somebody to get a